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Keep the "bimbo" language off my posts. Prostitution is an illegal industry that uses violence and power to abuse women.
by Shelby Meyerhoff on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 10:09:09 AM PDT
[ Parent ]
Not always.
That's true of much of prostitution, particularly lower dollar prostitution.
From what I've seen in the last day, it appears that the prostitute in this particular case doesn't appear to have been brought into it or kept there through violence or threat.
Delicate subject.
The light is at home in the darkness. -- Parmenides
by ogre on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 10:42:19 AM PDT
Although perhaps the power Shelby refers to is not of the coercive sort, but rather that which some members of society hold, and vast numbers of others do not.
At any rate, it doesn't really advance the conversation to subject this young woman to further scorn.
Be kind, for everyone you meet is fighting a great battle. -Philo of Alexandria
by vansterdam on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 10:55:31 AM PDT
--though he falls farther and harder, because he climbed up on the Mr. Clean image.
Questions for each of them:
Did you know that what you were doing was wrong?
Did you know it was illegal?
I suspect that both of them would answer "yes." Twist turn, writhe... but say yes.
What the hell were you thinking?
Both deserve their moment in the modern equivalent of the public pillory--no throwing things, folks--and then should be permitted to try to put their lives back together and move on. Life's short, and forgiveness as precious as water.
I don't expect people not to make mistakes. I do expect them to learn from them. She's learning that accepting money from wealthy and powerful people to do things that are generally deemed illegal and immoral is a fast way to get your 15 minutes of fame in an unpleasant way. As unpleasant lessons go, that's unpleasant... but not really that horrible. No marks, no scars.
Respect is something that we offer like trust, on assumptions. She and Spitzer get to try to recover the right to expect much respect from people at large. That's a long road.
by ogre on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 01:38:54 PM PDT
Yes, I was thinking not only of physical violence and power, but also of social power (i.e. the power that some people have and other people don't as a result of their race, gender, sexual orientation, income, health, language, or other factors). Thanks for pointing that out.
by Shelby Meyerhoff on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 02:11:07 PM PDT
Hi Ogre. It is a delicate subject, and I'm no expert. Of course it is possible that some woman somewhere has chosen to be a prostitute completely of her own free will (as Sister Quaterstaff posits below). However, I do think in most cases women end up as prostitutes due to a lack of power and/or money, or due to abuse.
CNN ran a story today that quoted the MySpace page of Ashley Dupre (the prostitute in the Spitzer case):
"Dupre writes that she left home at 17 to begin "my odyssey to New York." "It was my decision, and I've never looked back," she writes. "Left my hometown. Left a broken family. Left abuse. Left an older brother who had already split. Left and learned what it was like to have everything, and lose it, again and again. "Learned what it was like to wake up one day and have the people you care about most gone. I have been alone. I have abused drugs. I have been broke and homeless. But, I survived, on my own. I am here, in NY because of my music."
"Dupre writes that she left home at 17 to begin "my odyssey to New York."
"It was my decision, and I've never looked back," she writes. "Left my hometown. Left a broken family. Left abuse. Left an older brother who had already split. Left and learned what it was like to have everything, and lose it, again and again.
"Learned what it was like to wake up one day and have the people you care about most gone. I have been alone. I have abused drugs. I have been broke and homeless. But, I survived, on my own. I am here, in NY because of my music."
She had an abusive home life, as well as a more recent history of drug addiction and financial destitution. This isn't to demean her in any way, but simply to point out that she was in a situation where she had very little power.
Also today on CNN is the story of a 16-year-old girl from Mexico who was kidnapped, brought to the United States, and forced into prostitution. Obviously many men paid to rape her without caring about the fact that she was padlocked in a room.
While not every single prostitute is necessarily being held down by violence or an imbalance of power, the industry as a whole encourages -- and even depends on -- coercing women against their will.
by Shelby Meyerhoff on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 01:48:05 PM PDT
No argument.
But Dupre chose a means of making money that didn't demand 40 hours a week of often boring work. I've known artists and musicians who were all about their art... and were making donuts or waiting tables.
I'm not judging an act of desperation, but what appears to have been a way of, well--her words--"having everything" (again).
The sense that one is entitled to having everything is, I think, a major cultural flaw. She hasn't stated it, but there's a sense in that quote that honest, crappy paying work is perceived as being beneath her. It's the same psychology as people who've had rough lives and are dealing drugs (not at the street level, which is fiscally and otherwise on a par with street prostitution).
Self worth set in dollars, perhaps--a very, very dangerous thing to do (and one that I'd like to point out that UUs are dangerously vulnerable to).
by ogre on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 02:41:01 PM PDT
hours of sleep last night (long story), I'm not in the best mood. I'm p.o.'d that Spitzer could have been such an idiot, and of course it's been pointed out that RUDY! did worse things and nobody cared.
I stand by my statement, though: as ogre points out, the young lady was probably not forced by economic necessity to go into her line of work. So I'm not going to waste my limited amount of sympathy on her. Spitzer is a moron, but he's not exploiting some innocent young thing. She sure seems to be doing it willingly.
/rant
by Gig Harber on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 11:00:39 AM PDT
Thanks.
I quoted Dupre's MySpace page above, which CNN reports on. It does seem to me that there are some signs she was in a situation of economic necessity: she was at various times "homeless," "broke" and struggling with drug use.
by Shelby Meyerhoff on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 01:51:30 PM PDT
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