Street Prophets

Short Hops

by pastordan

Fri Feb 03, 2006 at 12:37:25 PM PDT

Sorry to be an absentee landlord, I have just been overrun today, and tomorrow's not much better. Pooh.

In any case, here's some rich bloggy goodness for you:

  1. Ha, ha: the proposal to alter the Maryland constitution to ban same-sex marriage has gone down in flames. It joins the recent Republican-financed ballot initiative in Florida which failed - by about 200,000 - to receive enough signatures to proceed. I'm not even sorry the Maryland initiative died by legislative maneuvering.

    No, not even a little.

  2. Excellent summaries of the controversy over Danish cartoons of the Prophet Muhammed here and particularly here. I thought the Washington Post did a good job of setting the story in context, but IANAA (I Am Not An Arabist). They're talking about it over at Big Orange, but I won't vouch for the productivity of the conversation.

  3. Andrea Yates has left prison for a psychiatric hospital, as she awaits retrial on capital murder charges. It's bad enough that her first conviction was overturned because a prosecution expert testified that Yates might have been influenced by an episode of Law & Order that, um, didn't actually exist. But to come back and seek the death penalty on a retrial - when the original sentence was life in prison - is nothing short of bloodthirsty. Of course, it wouldn't be the first time Texas has executed a mentally ill person.
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Tags: (all tags)

Permalink | 31 comments

  • Arabist? (0 / 0)

    You know, most Muslims aren't Arabic. Note the first country mentioned, after all, in the Post article is Pakistan.

    Join the battle against cosmic evil!

    by gzt on Fri Feb 03, 2006 at 01:03:33 PM PDT

  • Andrea Yates (0 / 0)

    I have always found this story horribly sad. I'm appalled they want the death penalty. Absolutely senseless. She punished herself worse than they ever could.

    by Elizabeth D on Fri Feb 03, 2006 at 01:17:39 PM PDT

    • Yeah, we kill people... (0 / 0)

      to teach people not to kill people.

      I came to a full, unequivocal objection to the death penalty with McVeigh.  It's not a question of whether someone deserves it.  I'll grant that some do.

      The light is at home in the darkness. -- Parmenides

      by ogre on Fri Feb 03, 2006 at 09:35:38 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      • according to what I believe,,,, (0 / 0)

        ,,,we all deserve hell.God had Mercy on us through Christ's sacrifice on the cross.If we deserved death(spiritual death or seperation from God)and the creator showed us mercy should we not show mercy to those who deserve physical death.I would be against Andrea Yates death even if I thought she knew what she was doing.The fact I believe she was out of her head and unable to understand what she was doing was wrong  makes it doubly so.

        by tabbycat1138 on Mon Feb 06, 2006 at 08:29:01 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  • Upcoming events for autograph hounds (0 / 0)

    (quilt style).

    Check the quilt signature thread here for upcoming events -- sent to me by David Swanson.

    by Rain on Fri Feb 03, 2006 at 01:19:06 PM PDT

  • cartoons (0 / 0)

    I posted a comment on a diary here, and to my blog, but mostly I'm trying to stay out of any debates at Daily Kos. Religion is a difficult topic there at the best of times and I think any debate I entered into would turn into a flame war if it wasn't one already.

    It's just too painful right now.

    For those who are interested, I particularly liked this overview, which provides a lot of useful background.

    I just pray that both sides can calm down and try to work together for peace and understanding instead of inflaming each other more.

    "Riches does not mean having a great amount of property, but riches is self-contentment." (Prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him)

    by lauramp on Fri Feb 03, 2006 at 01:20:16 PM PDT

    • Quite a discussion of the cartoons is going on (0 / 0)

      at BAGNewsNotes. Don't know if it is enlightening anything, but ummabdulla's comments are interesting.

      Can It Happen Here?

      by janinsanfran on Fri Feb 03, 2006 at 08:16:33 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    • The opinions offered at 360 degrees east (0 / 0)

      seem quite enlightened... in a multisided shrieking match where there's not much light at all.

      Were the cartoons objectionable?  Yeah, sure.  Did the context matter?  OF COURSE the context mattered!  It always matters.  But the reactions to the cartoons were excessive, shrill and antagonistic, and the reactions to the reactions at least as bad and...

      Look at them go.

      I'm reminded of my favorite character from Shakespeare's A Midsummer Night's Dream, observing "Lord, what fools these mortals be!"

      The light is at home in the darkness. -- Parmenides

      by ogre on Fri Feb 03, 2006 at 09:43:26 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      • agreed (0 / 0)

        Yep, that was my favorite too. Unfortunately, people who have a quiet response are by the nature of it drowned out by those who are shrieking. I'm trying my best, as time allows, to highlight some of those quieter voices who have something worthwhile to say.

        "Riches does not mean having a great amount of property, but riches is self-contentment." (Prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him)

        by lauramp on Fri Feb 03, 2006 at 11:14:08 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  • Here is a site (0 / 0)

    That shows that the cartoon debate is downright ahistorical.  It provides dozens of examples of visual representations of the prophet from medieval art to South Park.  Very illuminating.

    by True Blue on Fri Feb 03, 2006 at 02:05:50 PM PDT

    • not really the point (0 / 0)

      For many Muslims, the point isn't really that the Prophet Muhammad was depicted in art but that the depiction was offensively stereotypical.

      How would you feel about cartoons that used common anti-Semitic or racist stereotypes? Thinking about it that way might help in understanding why Muslims are offended.

      "Riches does not mean having a great amount of property, but riches is self-contentment." (Prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him)

      by lauramp on Fri Feb 03, 2006 at 03:58:02 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      • I totally get why they're offended (0 / 0)

        And that I would be offended by the kinds of representations you mention.  Since when does being offended entitle you to make death threats?  This is free speech.  I don't care what it says.  It doesn't license that kind of thing.

        by True Blue on Fri Feb 03, 2006 at 06:19:39 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      • I hate when evangelicals are stereotyped.... (0 / 0)

        .....but I did not go into a theater and start attacking folks when "Saved" came out(which was a bigoted stereotyped peice of garbage in my veiw).Just the opposite, I spoke out against some local SBC churches plan to try and force local theaters not to carry it.I will defend all expression even that which I veiw as vile to protect that which I veiw as beautiful,good and pure.

         they have a right to be upset.They do not have a right to get violent.

        by tabbycat1138 on Mon Feb 06, 2006 at 08:34:26 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  • Imagine no religion (0 / 0)

    Since religion & idolatry (nationalism) are curses on humanity, why should God be offended if we evolved beyond them?

    "There ain't no sanity clause." Chico Marx http://wfmu.org/playlists/RX

    by Asbury Park on Fri Feb 03, 2006 at 04:13:04 PM PDT

    • They are not curses..... (0 / 0)

      ......the perversion of them are.

        Relgion has caused the Inquisistion and the Crusades,it also caused folks of faith to go down to Louisiana and the Gulf Coast and help those in need.

       I believe in national soverignity and that my nation is the greatest on earth.I also believe that everyone should think the same about their country.religion and nationalism played a huge part in the acts of charity that took place after 9-11,they also have us engaged in a needless war in Iraq due to the way they have been perverted by a self serving group of power gluttons.

        Faith,spirituality and even religion are gifts.As with any gifts some use them for good,some use them for evil it is our misuse of these gifts that is a curse not the gifts.

      by tabbycat1138 on Mon Feb 06, 2006 at 08:40:53 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  • If not for God's grace.... (0 / 0)

    .....and me being toopsychotic to even think about disengaging the safety of the shotgun I was aiming at my mom(who I thought was being controlled by the DNC's demons to try and kill me) I would be in Andrea's shoes.Apparently Bill O'reily and Geraldo are telepaths.They both said she knew what she was doing was wrong.wow!!! Maybe they replace Ms Cleo the Psychic.

     Our Justice system should be renamed the Revenge or Vengeance System.

     Lets face it more likely than not the jury did not give a da,mn whether or not she was able to tell her actions were evil,they wanted their pound of flesh and now that the media has protrayed her as a murderinbg bitch who is using a "suppossed" mental ilness to get away with killing her babies she will probally get death.

     And her scum bag husband who refused to let her seek treatment  trots off with his trophy wife while pretending he is the poor innocent victim in all this.There are victimds in this,those 5 babies and Andrea Yates.She is the victim of a mosterous and insidious illness and a callous,cold blooded,heartless religous zealot husband.

       Of course we are all fakers who are too sorry to take responsibilty for ourselves and the goverment should not pay for drugs and therapy to help us run away from reality.

    DAMN IT!!!!

     Andrea,myself and thousands like us just want to be able to figure out what reality is on a consistent basis.I am blessed,my parents are a lot more conservative than I am and very traditional,but they have been my rock,sticking by me.I would not be called a high functioning schizophrenic,which means what I am sane 75% of the time, if not for them.

     Andrea and many others are not as blessed.

       Go ahead Texas,execute her.You casn start the movement towards truth in advertising by using this add slogan:Texas,Pol Pots favorite state.

     or we cure those with mental ilness the old fashioned way:we execute them.

     Sorry,but as a paranoid schizophrenic this pisses me off.I have tried to write the goverener of Texas and President Bush about Andrea,but my loved ones say my letters will only serve to get me a personal intro to your friendly neighborhood secret service agent.

     I am afraid i cannot control myself on this issue.

     Every time she is sane,she wants to kill herself cause what she did to her babies.If you execute her it will be our justice system that is the cold blooded killer.

     i end with this prayer;

     Dear Father,

     Please help Andrea.Give the jury and the judge the wisdom to make sure she receives justice and gets the help she needs.I do not want her to hurt anybody else,but she is a suffering child of yours.Lord please help her.You have blessed me so much in dealing with this cross of mental ilness

    you have given me,please help her.

     And for those who seek her death.Forgive them Father for they know not what they do.

     your humble Serveant

        tabby

     

    by tabbycat1138 on Sat Feb 04, 2006 at 08:04:40 PM PDT

    • Amen. (0 / 0)

      you should repost this comment as a diary.

      by Elizabeth D on Sat Feb 04, 2006 at 10:38:26 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    • ::sigh:: (0 / 0)

      I'll try very hard to be rude, but I worry that no matter what I say it will sound like it.  PD, I have a tremendous amount of respect for you, but Yates?  Please, please say that you're kidding me.

      But if you're going to cry "poor poor little Andrea" then I feel an obligation bring up the counterpoint.

      Andrea Yates is a serial killer.  You kill more than one person by the same method, you're a serial killer.  She killed, what, 4 people by drowning them in a tub?  SERIAL KILLER.

      It also stands to reason that ALL serial killers are mentally ill.  So are we going to start crying pity tears for Bundy or Dahmer or [enter serial killer's name here]?  Do you opine about how awful it is to that someone like me wants to see people like that dead, poor pitiful Teddy and I know not what I do?

      Just b/c Andrea is female does not give her a free pass.  Just b/c she is mentally ill does not give her a free pass any more than it did for the mentally ill serial killers that came before her.

      Direct your anger for Andrea's situation at the people that put her there - her husband, her family, and the wacky ass Christian preacher in the Dallas area that fucked with her head in the years before.  THEY deserve your condemnation.

      But ultimately she had choices.  Andrea could have left.  She could have gotten help for herself.  She could have called the police before she killed her children and said "I think I might do something very bad to them if you don't come get them right now."

      In her "illness" she had the presence of mind AFTER she'd killed them to call the police and say that she'd done something bad.  That single fact, right there, demonstrates she wasn't completely detached from her actions and consequences.

      She knew what she had done.  She knew what she was doing, and she killed them anyway.

      SERIAL KILLER.

      I'd bet good money that's what the jury nailed her with at the first trial, and it's what they'll nail her on the second time through.  I for one am not gonna cry if they stick a needle in her arm, it's a helluva a lot better than those kids got.

      So, please, if you wanna be all pro-Andrea that's your choice and I respect that, but don't belittle me for "not understanding" because I'd prefer to see the death penalty option used in this case.  I understand that very, very well, and I don't regret it at all.

      by bionicKitty on Mon Feb 06, 2006 at 07:25:03 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      • bionic kitty.... (0 / 0)

        .....mental illness is no excuse for killing,however the law establishes,rightly so, if when the crime is comitted a person if incapable of understand that their actions are wrong they are not criminally culpable.

         I am schizophrenic,If I kill someone while I am stable and in full control of my facilities I should be punished to the full extent of the law.If I am psychotic and believe it is self defense or otherwise cannot tell my actions are wrong I should be locked up where I cannot hurt anyone else,but I also should be locked up in a mental facility,not a prison.

         In my illness when I was emerging from my psychotic state and was rational enough to realize I tried to kill mom I put both barrels of a 20 gauge shotgun to my jaw and pulled the trigger.  

         It is easy for you to sit in judgement.You do not walk in our shoes.Yeah she is a coldblooded serial killer.They all try and kill themselves over what they have done.

         And I could care less she is a women.I am against the death penalty period,but I think itt is doubly evil when someone is put to death who was not rational when they committed the crime.Most juries go into these cases with the attitude that all defendents are faking mental ilness to "get away with it".

         I am sorry I have nothing against you and I an sure you mean well,but if we start excuting the Andrea Yates of the world we become no better than Pol Pot,Saddam and their ilk in my veiw.

         

        by tabbycat1138 on Mon Feb 06, 2006 at 08:54:53 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        • She raises an interesting point about Bundy (0 / 0)

          and Dahmer though ...

          They were mentally ill ...

          and they were also evil ...

          Dahmer seemed indifferent to the sufferings of others ...

          he just wanted sex robots, according to his story ...

          Bundy was more of a classic sadist, enjoying the thrill of hurting people ...

          At some point we will have to deal with the degree to which each or both were "victims" of their insanity, and to what degree they exulted in it ...

          Both are light years from the miserable situaiton Yates found herself in ...

          She exulted in nothing ...

          And her actions ere pure insanity, not greed/lust (Dahmer) or sociopathic sadism (Bundy).

          To call everything that's crazy "crazy" is to miss a lot of gray area.

          by Mike Finley on Mon Feb 06, 2006 at 11:51:27 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

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