Street Prophets

Come Let Us Reason Together: A Response from Third Way

Thu Oct 11, 2007 at 01:18:22 PM PDT

From:
Rachel Laser, Director of the Third Way Culture Project
Robert P. Jones, Ph.D., Religion Scholar and Third Way Consultant

First, we’d like to thank Pastor Dan for responding at length to our paper, "Come Let Us Reason Together: A Fresh Look at Shared Cultural Values between Evangelicals and Progressives" yesterday.  We are ourselves baffled, however, with his assertion that "there’s little new here" and that at bottom this careful research and concrete policy recommendations amount to "a less-than-inspiring solution to a phony problem."  These hasty conclusions are unfortunately based on a misunderstanding of the expressed purpose of the paper and a misreading of both the data and the real political landscape.

1.  Perhaps the most pervasive misunderstanding in PD’s response is that he has imposed a partisan frame on an explicitly non-partisan paper. See his conclusion:

"Come to think of it, why any of this? I really can't see any point to this study other than to provide an intellectual foundation for people who've already decided that the future of the Democratic party lies in attracting "persuadable evangelicals".... but what we need to know is why that would be preferable to concentrating on winning many more non-evangelicals who are solidly and consistently in agreement with the party's core positions. This study doesn't answer that question."

Likewise, PD criticizes our paper for not taking up a host of issues.  He states:
"Meanwhile, the issues that Americans do care about these days - the war, health care, immigration - go unaddressed."

But both of these criticisms misunderstand the purpose of our paper, which we clearly lay out in the very first paragraph:

"This paper presents a framework for bridging the cultural divide that has existed between many progressives and Evangelicals. Over the last few years, progressives and Evangelicals have engaged in new discussions to find common ground on issues like caring for the poor, eliminating HIV/AIDS in Africa, and more recently, protecting the environment. These groundbreaking dialogues are significant achievements, but they have succeeded largely by agreeing to sidestep so-called "cultural issues." As a result, many who consider themselves both Evangelical and progressive have held these identities in considerable tension, and those who identify as one or the other still envision themselves on opposite sides of a cultural gulf.

Now, it’s fine if Pastor Dan wishes that our paper laid out an agenda for the Democratic Party or addressed a broader set of issues, but this was explicitly not our purpose. It’s a real mistake to criticize the paper on those grounds.  Our purpose was to find common ground between Evangelicals and progressives on some of the toughest, most divisive issues of our day—something we’ve achieved (not perfectly but certainly substantively) after numerous, painstaking conversations with progressive and evangelical leaders over the course of this year.

2.  Second, and more troubling, is PD’s misreading of the data and the real political landscape, both of which cause him to miss what’s "new" and significant in this paper.

PD asserts that "the data in the back of the study undermines the authors' own points" and cites a chart that shows partisanship by religious subgroups (traditionalist, centrists, modernists).  He then goes on to argue that this chart does not show that significant numbers of Evangelicals "are more in play than conventional wisdom suggests."

But that data is not the relevant data for that argument, and it is not the data we use throughout the paper.  PD fails to understand that those categories are, as the title suggests, "religious subgroups" (based entirely on religious belief and practice measures developed by political scientist John Green, senior fellow at the Pew Forum on Religion and Politics) and not political subgroups.  We included that data from Green’s analysis in the appendix for reference because he is one of the most respected and cited experts on religion and politics.  (Green, by the way, described our analysis as "excellent" in an article in the Christian Science Monitor article published today).  

Throughout the paper, our arguments rest on the more appropriate measure of political subgroups (based on political measures such as the Pew social conservatism index), which lead to the new and significant insight about the diversity of Evangelicals that we call the one-fifth, one-third, one-half formula:

• One-fifth of Evangelicals (representing 5% of the general population) are progressive;
• One-third of Evangelicals (representing 8% of the general population) are moderates who share some progressive values; and
• One-half of Evangelicals (representing 13% of the general population) are conservatives who may be partners on particular issues.

Moreover, we note that this pattern persists even on the more challenging terrain of cultural issues.  That half of Evangelicals representing 13% of the population (that, by the way, is more than 25 million adult Americans) are social progressives or moderates and open to forming policy alliances is no small insight.

Finally, PD misreads the real political landscape.  He notes:

Nobody that I'm aware of believes that churches should be forced to change their theology or sacraments to accommodate gays and lesbians. Nobody thinks that abortion should be encouraged willy-nilly, or that there should be no reasonable limits on the scientific uses of embryos and cloned material. Nobody, umm, even thinks about porno on the internet or fatherhood, much less disagrees with the very mild policy suggestions listed here.

PD’s declarations that "nobody that I’m aware of believes that..." and "nobody thinks that..." remind us of the old joke:

The inmates at the penitentiary know each other so well that they’ve numbered their jokes.  Instead of telling the whole joke, one of them will occasionally say, "#37" and the others will laugh.  A new inmate decides to give it a try and says, "#54!" But no one laughs. He asks the fellow next to him, "What did I do wrong?" The guy shakes his head and says, "Some people can tell 'em and some people can't."

The point here is that we hardly have to listen to people we know well—we all know what progressives really believe and that many of the stereotypes are false.  But when we venture outside our own walls—as we at Third Way have over the past year talking with numerous Evangelical leaders—we find that many of these fears exist (e.g., we included our statement on religion because so many Evangelicals we spoke to indicated a real distrust at that point), our short-hand falls flat, and our positions need to be carefully and explicitly articulated.  Both groups also come to understand, if we are honest, that while many stereotypes are based on sheer misperceptions, some are based on real missteps that have given extra life to those misperceptions.  The policies we outline here, far from addressing a "phony problem" that only existed in the "mid-90s" (PD, do you really believe America is not divided over these issues?), represent real progress not only in advancing civility in public life but in the concrete policy areas we address.


Tags: Evangelicals, Third Way, Progressives, Come Let us Reason together (all tags)

Permalink | 8 comments

  • You can see my take on the front page, (5+ / 0-)

    but let me just add this: yes, I really do believe that America is not divided over these issues. Not if you look at the opinion surveys, they're not.

  • There's an old saying: (3+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    Quotefiend, dirkster42, Marko

    Whether the pitcher hits the stone or the stone hits the pitcher, it's going to be bad for the pitcher.

    If "In principle"  Evangelicals may agree that AIDS should be treated (if not effectively prevented) and that poverty should be relieved ( consistent with free market growth ) and that the environment sorta oughta be protected (on the same terms) -- then what ?

    And why?

  • About that bridge (4+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    Quotefiend, dirkster42, Marko, AdamSelene

    Hi, Robert, glad to have you here!

    The paper is presented as a framework for bridging the cultural divide between Evangelicals and progressives. That implies you have some Evangelical people over here, and some progressive people over there, and are proposing a framework for dialogue between the two groups, maybe even beginning the dialogue.

    The structure of the paper doesn't support this, however; as I commented in the other thread, there's a section on the history of Evangelical public engagement, but no corresponding section on the history of the progressive movement. A serious dialogue paper would include both.

    But you've said something else here which seems spot-on:

    As a result, many who consider themselves both Evangelical and progressive have held these identities in considerable tension, and those who identify as one or the other still envision themselves on opposite sides of a cultural gulf.

    I don't think you're constructing a dialogue between two groups of people at all. I think you're talking to these people, these people who identify both as progressive and Evangelical, and feel conflicted about it.

    And that's a good thing to do too. But it's not the same as dialogue.

    Ubi caritas et amor, Deus ibi est.

    by StarWoman on Thu Oct 11, 2007 at 07:11:28 PM PDT

  • I think the problem you're running into.. (2+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    Quotefiend, dirkster42

    Is the whole partisan/non-partisan thing. Your paper is trying to be non-partisan, and quite frankly, that's where it's wrong. It's like writing about buggy whips after the Model T came out. Now, speaking for myself, I mourn that things are that way...I'm more of a policy wonk myself, and the ultra-partisan environment isn't that great for that, but all the same that's the environment that's present.

    If one is concerned with improving health care, ending the war in Iraq, a better labor code, protecting the environment, etc. the only thing to do is ensure that more and better Democrats are elected. Full stop. I wish that things were not that way, but to anybody who's paying attention, it's clear that the extremists are running the Republican party, and even voting for moderates will put party ideology before pretty much everything.

    Much in the same way, it's clear that the Evangelical voting block really is extremist in some of their views. Out of the mainstream, voting against things that overwhelming majorities of the public support.This may be due to individual beliefs, however, I think that it's due to the more authoritarian mindset of that style of religion and how "opinion" filters down from the top.

    If you go back and find the various threads on the Unchristian study released recently, you'll find quite a bit of concern that what we're seeing is the common assumption that we're wrong, and we need to change our strongly held beliefs to accommodate evangelicals. If you don't share that assumption, at least with this crowd, you really need to make that crystal clear, as it's popped up so many times it's kinda assumed.

    The future doesn't scare me at all..'cos nothing's like before.

    by Karmakin on Fri Oct 12, 2007 at 04:57:51 AM PDT

  • My sense is that this paper (3+ / 0-)

    one election cycle behind the times.  There's a lot of talk about bridging a gap between progressives, as if the Sojourners faith forum with the presidential candidates never happened.  Faith in Public Life has had a few articles on how the Republicans, not the Democrats, are the party with a larger "faith problem" this cycle.  The paper is describing something that's already in process as if it's something that is a radical challenge to take up.  Perhaps that has to do with when the research was conducted, though.

    But the whole paper is framed as a matter of undefined progressives and nuanced, complex Evangelicals.  No where in the paper are progressives defined.  The first footnote goes on about how difficult it is to define Evangelicals, but I have no idea whom you're talking about when you say progressives, who apparently have a "religion problem," thus erasing the progressive leadership of the National Council of Churches from the equation.  Now, we could have a debate about the effectiveness and role of the NCC in American society today, and why it's not as influential as it was during the Johnson administration, but we can't have that debate if we just pretend it's not there.

    But this bit really had me wondering what's going on here:

    No legislation to protect the human dignity of gay and lesbian people should or need abridge the religious liberty of religious communities.  Religious liberties and civil liberties are grounded in the same constitutional principles and must go forward together.  Religious groups have a constitutionally protected right to manage their own communities, regulate their own religious practices, and express their beliefs publicly on issues around homosexuality.

    Well, duh.  Has there been even a single piece of legislation advancing the rights of GLBT people that infringes on the rights of religious communities to manage and regulate themselves or to express their beliefs publicly?  Where is the forward motion here?    As a gay man, I feel like I could tattoo that paragraph on my forehead, and I would still be a target of the efforts of Right Wing evangelicals (such as James Dobson) to foment a culture war on the issue of homosexuality.

    The Wine of Youth ferments this night in the veins of God - Alfred de Musset.

    by dirkster42 on Fri Oct 12, 2007 at 11:36:03 AM PDT

    • Your definition of that might be different.. (2+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      Quotefiend, dirkster42

      Than theirs. You're thinking or religious community as meaning..say forcing a church to marry gay couples or something like that. And you're right. There's no forward motion for that. It's just...duh. Doesn't happen.

      But there are other people that put "religious community" at a more individual level. Say being able to fire someone for being homosexual, for example, just to keep it simple and common. For a lot of people, that's the religious liberty they are looking for.

      The future doesn't scare me at all..'cos nothing's like before.

      by Karmakin on Fri Oct 12, 2007 at 11:48:40 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

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