Street Prophets

"Divine Will" or "Will of the People"? - Part II

Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 06:47:16 PM PDT

One needn't be a theophobe to believe that government ought to be conformed to the will of the people, not of the divine.

I examined one side of this idea in Part I - I am going to examine the other (maybe "next") part here:

What does control of the US government by the "will of the people" look like?

I am going to have to go to the idealized concept of control by the "will of the people" because certainly few in this country believe that their will controls the government; nor am I sure very many folks believe some will of "the people" in general controls government.

Indeed, the modern nation state resembles these remarks to me:

. . . important decisions in society were being made in remote, or at least highly inaccessible places like Washington and London. The growth of bureaucracies in capital cities and the remoteness of the centers of power increased the feeling of alienation from those who make truly adult decisions in society . . .

. . . once the institutions of government have outgrown the individual and the neighborhood, so that the very scale of governance no longer permits effective action for most people, then those people are more likely to take to the streets and address their grievances in destructive ways . . .

. . . [government] power is a prophylactic against violence

Assuming that in an ideal world, the modern western nation-state still has the ability to be directed by some general "will of the people" - how does that occur? The United States is not a true democracy - it is a representative republic. Also, most folks who have really thought it out really do not believe in "majority rule". The bottom line is that we expect our elected and appointed leaders - who are closer to being the actual people the government bows to the will of than us - to be ethical, moral and "do the right thing"; and that has nothing to do with the "will of the people" because we do not care what the majority thinks if that majority opposes what we believe to be ethical, moral, and right. C.S. Lewis:

I now go back to what I said at the end of the first chapter, that there were two odd things about the human race. First, that they were haunted by the idea of a sort of behavior they ought to practice, what you might call fair play, or decency, or morality, or the Law of Nature. Second, that they did not in fact do so.

This oddity is both the basis of natural moral law, and one of the important theistic arguments.

So, I believe there is a universal moral code, and that this is a general universal revelation from God to all of humanity. Lewis again:

I know that some people say the idea of a Law of Nature or decent behavior known to all men is unsound, because different civilizations and different ages have had quite different moralities.

But this is not true. There have been differences between their moralities, but these have never amounted to anything like a total difference. If anyone will take the trouble to compare the moral teaching of, say, the ancient Egyptians, Babylonians, Hindus, Chinese, Greeks and Romans, what will really strike him will be how very like they are to each other and to our own. Some of the evidence for this I have put together in the appendix of another book called The Abolition of Man; but for our present purpose I need only ask the reader to think what a totally different morality would mean. Think of a country where people were admired for running away in battle, or where a man felt proud of double-crossing all the people who had been kindest to him. You might just as well try to imagine a country where two and two made five. Men have differed as regards what people you ought to be unselfish to--whether it was only your own family, or your fellow countrymen, or every one. But they have always agreed that you ought not to put yourself first. Selfishness has never been admired. Men have differed as to whether you should have one wife or four. But they have always agreed that you must not simply have any woman you liked.

But the most remarkable thing is this. Whenever you find a man who says he does not believe in a real Right and Wrong, you will find the same man going back on this a moment later. He may break his promise to you, but if you try breaking one to him he will be complaining 'It's not fair' . . .

I have mentioned a number of times this list of reasons why - even if our conscience tells us to "do the right thing" - our faulty moral reasoning may make us corrupt moral agents:

  1. insufficient experience: we do not know enough to reach sound conclusions;
  2. insufficient skill: we haven't learned the art of reasoning well;
  3. sloth: we are too lazy to reason;
  4. corrupt custom: it hasn't occurred to us to reason;
  5. passion: we are distracted by strong feeling from reasoning carefully;
  6. fear: we are afraid to reason because we might find out we are wrong;
  7. wishful thinking: we include in our reasoning what we are willing to notice;
  8. depraved ideology: we interpret known principles crookedly; and
  9. malice: we refuse to reason because we are determined to do what we want.

This is why believers in natural moral law hold that, even though it flows from God to everyone, it must be strengthened, supported, and trained. That strength, support, and training comes from whatever ethical and moral system the person subscribes to - typically religion for 85% of the world - and it really must be pursued proactively. This includes our elected representatives.

Since I believe most ethical and moral systems on the planet are rooted in the divine nature, I do not expect those people elected to be Christians - that is a specific (not general) revelation. I do expect them to believe in Right and Wrong - and I expect them to be held to that. I also expect them to place their duty as an elected official, and as a representative of the people, higher than themselves: I expect it to be a vocation:

  1. The idea of a call implies an agent outside of the one who is subject to the call.
  2. The summons is often against the will of the one who is called into service.
  3. the calling involves in almost every case hardships that must be overcome in order to answer the summons.
  4. from the point of view of answering to the summons, the greatest danger appears not in this kind of resistance, but in the possibility of being diverted or distracted from the goal.
That vocation should have them work to analyze and improve their moral reasoning for the sake of strengthening them as moral agents; and allowing them to serve their constituents better by being more moral, more ethical, and doing the right thing more often.

And, in my opinion, their actions - by doing so - will be rooted in the "will of God" and not the "will of the people"; and it is exactly in the will of God (as reflected in doing Right and avoiding Wrong), and not the majority (the only logical definition of the "will of the people"), that their actions - and the actions of government - should be rooted. If - because they "do the right thing" against the will of the majority - they are removed from office by "the will of the people" then so be it.


Tags: A, J, Conyers, C, S, Lewis, conscience, Budziszewski, Moral agency, Moral reasoning, Natural Law, Philosophy, The Listening Heart (all tags)

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  • cookie jar (10+ / 0-)

    Please note that in neither post did I ever say the general moral revelation of God to humans conformed to the Christian religion, or its practice.

    Think of a foundation that a number of different houses could be built on - one of those floor plans is Christianity. Indeed, there are a number of similiar yet different floorplans called "Christian"

    However, there are a number of other floorplans conforming to other moral/ethical systems that share the same basic foundation.

    It is that shared foundation that natural moral law encompasses.

    SP's Bible in a Year: http://www.streetprophets.com/story/2005/10/19/105536/72

    by JCHFleetguy on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 07:27:34 PM PDT

  • While I've enjoyed these diaries... (2+ / 0-)

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    JCHFleetguy, vesticular

    I believe our terms, or phraseology, may be a bit divergent.

    First off breaking the topic between "the will of the people" and "G-d's will" is like squeezing a three dimensional object into a two dimensional plane. In America we have romanticized "Democracy", from the Greek "Power of The People", with all kinds of mythologies surrounding the fifth century Athenians that are as blatantly untrue now as they were then. The truth is that fifth century Athens was an oppressive military empire where half the people were non-people (because they were women) and of those remaining 80% were slaves.

    OK, so you'd suppose that after 2500 years Democracy has made some progress, but how long has it been now that women have had the right to vote or Jim Crow stepped back from the polling booths? Today in America we still have an electoral college to undo the popular vote in a pinch and how much influence does one have with your representative compared to the corporate lobbyists (who may very well assassinate any government official who votes the wrong way on any key issue)? Behind "the will of the people" is still the selfish interest of the elite.

    Then you say there is "G-d's will"  totally confused by the dogma of institutionalized religion and their texts. I do give you credit for enfolding all major faiths in their perceptions of the one supreme entity and looking for their common thread. I tend toward Christianity myself but to pull something from scripture there is this from Luke 4:8 (the second temptation of Christ)

    Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve.

    Some much for religion.

    Then there is Natural Law, which I see as different from G-d's law. For a primer on Narural Law take a cruise on a nice big old sail boat by yourself and try to cross the Atlantic. After a few days out, Natural Law will assert itself with a nice storm and/or big winds. Nature has no interest in man as anything other than part of its much greater self. If we continue to screw with it too much we will ultimately become worm food while Nature will carry on. Behind Natural Law there is no special interest in man, we're just part of the mix.

    G-d's Law (G-d's Will) I hold as Super-Natural. It is more related to the personal, it is intimate and it cares personally for us as much as for every other one of His children. We find G-d (I think) in relationship to our brothers and sisters (other talking monkeys) discovering in them the divine as we discover the divine within ourselves.

    Everything else is crap.

    What were we talking about again?

    • We do not see things that much different (2+ / 0-)

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      vesticular, Danish Brethern

      i just didnt mention the lobbyists and corporations ;-). Remember, I said I was going to - in order to find the will of the people - have to look at the idealized rather than the real. Frankly, I applaude Hillary Clinton for trying to anchor herself morally and ethically in a Bible study in Washington DC. If it helps her weather the storm of the lobbyists God be with her. For Jeff Sharlet even to mention the choice of the United States being the will of God or the "will of the people" ignored that it has been a long time since our nation-state was ruled in any way that put that government within the grasp of it's peoples will. It is too big and too distant even in an ideal world.

      We do look at natural law differently because I am not talking about the law of nature. That is why I call it natural moral law or Lewis's Law of Right Behavior.

      I do think you have fallen into the Enlightenment pit a bit when it comes to isolating yourself from "dogma of institutionalized religion and their texts." And I am not quite so into the 7 blind monks and the elephant as this implies

      I do give you credit for enfolding all major faiths in their perceptions of the one supreme entity and looking for their common thread.

      There is a real Elephant that wants us to know It and has given us the ability to do so - to lose our blindfolds. Indeed, it has given us the Sign of Noah and It's Word made flesh - which It resurrected from the dead so we wouldn't be confused. I may understand that all religions have built on the same basic general revelation - but I think Christianity has built the right house on that foundation.

      However, we each have our own forms of lobbyists trying to make us put that blindfold back on so that we can think the tail is only a rope.  

      SP's Bible in a Year: http://www.streetprophets.com/story/2005/10/19/105536/72

      by JCHFleetguy on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 01:44:50 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  • I don't have the text-- (4+ / 0-)

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    JCHFleetguy, Aunt Em, waterdish, Icelander

    it is, at the moment an unpublished manuscript--but I've heard the summary version of it.

    The bottom line of it is that ethics and morals as we commonly discuss them are demonstrably evolutionary; each of the principles that ethics has put forth and wrestled with and proposed as "the" (or at least "a") fundamental good is easily identified as a sound evolutionary principle.

    That could mean that it's divine will and all built in... and it could just as easily mean that what we understand as ethical is what evolution has show us is sensible and advantageous.

    It's important, however, to understand what this observation means (it is, I think, one of those brilliantly obvious things that once pointed out... is obvious).  It means that attempts to raise up ONE ethical principle as the basis for ethical life and behavior WILL fail.  They all exist, and it is their very interaction that creates the moral universe as we understand it.  It's not that ethics is relative in the sense that people usually use the term ("Relativism")--and in fact I know the author (in yet another manuscript that I do actually have a copy of) rejects relativism in each of its forms.  Rather it's that it's not a simple, fixed object.  It's more like a solar system in which all the pieces move and interact.  So knowing what's ethical is a question of perceiving what's significant and what's not--in the same way that one can calculate a trajectory through the solar system; depending on when and where... different things affect the course one wants to take, and ot lesser and greater degrees... and sometimes can be effectively ignored.

    The light is at home in the darkness. -- Parmenides

    by ogre on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 02:10:12 AM PDT

    • I think Lewis dealt with this 60 years ago (1+ / 0-)

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      Belvedere Come Here Boy

      our "oughts" have never been based on an "is". For there to be an evolutionary principle involved, those who carried out the "oughts" should have survived; and those that didn't should have not. Then, the good "oughts" would have overwealmed the bad "oughts".

      However, what brings natural moral law into our view is that we are most aware of it when we are violating it. It is not some instinct bred into us over time - it is a feeling of how we are supposed to behave but never have.

      Evolution cannot work on a trait that has never been carried out. All that "situational" ethics and "relativism" are is the convenient philosophical excuses humans come up with when they want to ignore the "ought" in their conscience.

      SP's Bible in a Year: http://www.streetprophets.com/story/2005/10/19/105536/72

      by JCHFleetguy on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 02:52:08 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      • Lewis couldn't have dealt with this 60 yrs ago (2+ / 0-)

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        JCHFleetguy, waterdish

        Because a good deal of work on the "evolution" of ethics and morals has been done in the last decade or two and much is still going on. Some studies show apes and chimpanzees to have a moral capacity. Our species is not alone in having a moral compass.

        It sounds like your whole understanding of evolution still centers around the anachronistic phrase "survival of the fittest".  No modern evolutionary scientist talks like that any more. It is an over simplification and mischaracterization of the process.

        BTW, I really like this series of diaries.

        Your 9 reasons why we are corrupt and faulty moral agents i.e. cannot speak for or do "Gods work" made me think of a story I read by Greg Boyd recently.

        He was talking about a pastors conference where he was sharing the stage in an open forum with Chuck Colson and Shayne Claiborn. Colson was talking about his new book on faith and politics where he argues that Christians do  have a DUTY to participate in government(and vote in favor of or against certain things) and sometimes they might have to go against some of their christian principles. He talked about them joining the military if necessary or that at times even killing someone (in a non military situation) may be required.  He told the story Dietrich Boenhoffer and how his faith had led him to try to assassinate Hitler.
        Now Boyd has argued in his book that Christians never have a christian duty to vote for anyone. That no "government' can be Gods vehicle for change and that the only thing we must be loyal to is God. Voting is fine and following the laws of our society is good but none of these brings us closer to the kingdom.
        One should never be sure they are Gods agent for change.
        After Colson finished, Claiborn told "the rest of the story" regarding Boenhoffer.  In an interview, Hitlers secretary had told a German newspaper that when Hitler and his associates had survived the bomb blast, they had a renewed sense of purpose and felt that Gods providence had protected them, ensuring them that they were on the right path. They were emboldened and didn't stop til millions of Jews had been exterminated and other unspeakable horrors had been perpetrated.

        After a few seconds Boyd said " I rest my case"

        Peace

        We are not called out of this world but deeper into it........ Robin Myers

        by gbgasser on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 12:14:47 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        • What is that saying: (0 / 0)

          nothing new under the sun.

          The process is not survival of the fittest - it is that biological and (perhaps) mental traits give the possessor an advantage that allows that trait to survive.

          First, I do not think anyone has gotten close to convincingly dealt with "mind" on a biological materialist level. It is certainly a central project of materialists.

          The point is: we do not, an have not, followed our moral compass - so it could not have impacted our evolution :-) Whereas we can study apes and see them "acting morally" - we do not know what conflicting ideas they are working through. However, as Lewis pointed out, if we could not communicate with an observer and they had to draw the conclusions from the "is" of our observable behavior - they might never know the "oughts" we ignore; and they might never even know what the content of our deep conscience is: as we do not know about the apes. After all, an instinct embedded in our biology that we have no choice about is not actually a morality - it is a behavior. Our morality doesn't match our behavior.

          I come down on both sides of the Boyd vs Colson argument. I agree with Colson that we have an obligation to "render unto Caesar" what is his - and in a representative democracy we have an obligation to bring our morality into the public square: voting is an obligation that comes from the secular rights secured for us. On the other hand, I agree with Boyd that

          no "government' can be Gods vehicle for change and that the only thing we must be loyal to is God. Voting is fine and following the laws of our society is good but none of these brings us closer to the kingdom.

          I think that is a truth that both the Christian right and left need to understand. One point like this I quote a bit is from "The Problem with Conservatism" by J. Budziszewski. The third error is Moralism - and his conclusion to that:

          "Moses permitted you to divorce your wives because your hearts were hard," said Jesus, "but it was not this way from the beginning" (Matthew 19:8). No doubt the Pharisees to whom He was speaking were scandalized by the idea that their civil law did not reflect God’s standards fully. They must have been even more offended by the suggestion that it was not intended to. Among religious conservatives this suggestion is still a scandal, but it does not come from liberals; it comes from the Master.

          Christians, then, may certainly commend a law as good or condemn it as evil. They may declare it consistent or inconsistent with the faith. But not even a good law may be simply identified with the faith; Christians must not speak of a tax code, marriage ordinance, or welfare policy as Christian no matter how much, or even how rightly, they desire its enactment or preservation. That predicate has been preempted by the law of God. The civil law will be Christian—if it still exists at all—only when Christ himself has returned to rule: not when a coalition of religious conservatives has got itself elected.

          Incidentally, if you haven't read them both, the companion "The Problem with Liberalism" is good as well. I can get away with quoting the first piece around here - I do stir up the troops with the second though :-)

          And, I thank you for the compliment
           

          SP's Bible in a Year: http://www.streetprophets.com/story/2005/10/19/105536/72

          by JCHFleetguy on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 01:05:51 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

  • Vox populi, vox Dei? NT (1+ / 0-)

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    waterdish

    This time, can we elect a President? Please, not another clown.

    by grada3784 on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 04:29:54 AM PDT

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